Agnosticism, Atheism, Paganism & Invaders from Mars
Here below is part of a conversation in the comments box I thought interesting enough to merit its own entry.
mrmandias writes in
"What if I’m an agnostic about the existence of the classical or eastern or northern gods in some form?"
I would venture to say that a man can be an atheist when it comes to an infinite, all-powerful god, but still be an agnostic about gods who make less ambitious or absolute claims.
It is like not believing in Martians as opposed to not believing in gravity. Gravity, if it exists, influences every single part of space, and every atom. You cannot be agnostic about gravity: either you believe in it or not. Martians, on the other hand live on Mars, and if you have never been there, or if the pictures from landers on Mars have not covered every square inch above and below the planet, you are not illogical to believe that the case for or against the existence of Martians has not been proved beyond doubt one way or the other. Gravity you have to say yea or nay to the concept. Martians you can say ‘maybe’ or say ‘not all the evidence is in’.
Monotheism is like gravity. Is there is an omnipresent God, then He should be present in all places. Polytheism or Taoism or Shinto is like Martians. Maybe Circe or Zeus really does exist, but we do not see them because we have not been to Aeaea, or to
Christians, some of them, think the classical gods are quite real and act exactly the way the pagans said: rapists and murderers and creatures of greater power and beauty than mortals, filled with lusts and vendettas and seeking the worship and adoration of mankind. They are fallen angels, created being not loyal to their creator. Other Christians think pagan fables are fables.
Your idea that an atheist can accept paganism speaks to the peculiar kind of atheist that you were. Most atheism involves an emotional rejection of transcendence. Even in the rare cases where its not a thorough-going materialism, ideals must remain ideals, abstractions, without personality or being. Even the pagan gods are too much.
Well, do not misunderstand my ex-atheist position. When I was an atheist, I was agnostic about the existence of Circe and Zeus on the logical grounds that they could neither be proved to exist nor proved not to exist. BUT I was in no way a pagan and in no way thought like a pagan.
The discovery that Zeus existed would have surprised me as deeply as the discovery that the Martians of HG Wells existed: but that surprise would not have translated itself to a feeling of worship or adoration.
I would regard Zeus in the same fashion as I would regard a tripodal war-machine climbing out of a steaming crater in Grover’s Mill,
If I had come across Zeus in my atheist days, I would have treated him as regarded him as a powerful but natural being, because the category ‘supernatural’ did not exist anywhere in my mental equipment. I thought the word ‘supernatural’ was a contradiction in terms. Whatever existed was natural, in that it was bound by the laws of physics and logic and morality, and whatever was not bound by laws of physics and logic and morality simply did not and could not exist. ‘To exist’ meant ‘to have properties’ which meant ‘bound by laws of physics and logic and morality’.
I would not have bowed the knee to Zeus any more than I would have bowed to a Martian War Machine. Atheists don’t bow.
Or so was my opinion of atheists back when I was one. I was not aware, back then, how many of my fellow atheists were not what I would have called proper atheists, that is, an atheist who is an atheist for a rational rather than an emotional reason. Far too many atheists bow the knee and serve and worship idols like Political Correctness for my taste. They give the forces of evil a bad name.
Even among the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, you have villains you can admire, like Magneto, who stands for a principle, even if a wrong one. And then you have the Toad.
I am happy to be an X-Man, or X-tian, now.
(An afterthought: oddly enough, though they look like natural enemies, the atheist and the Christian suddenly thrown, for example, into the universe of BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER or somesuch would agree on two things: neither would worship the various demon-gods who claim dominion over man, and neither would practice magic.)
About John C Wright
John C. Wright is a practicing philosopher, a retired attorney, newspaperman, and newspaper editor, and a published author of science fiction. Once a Houyhnhnm, he was expelled from the august ranks of purely rational beings when he fell in love; but retains an honorary title.
